"The Problem of Evil"

If God is all-knowing, and all-powerful, then why does evil still exist? Listen as we break down this question and give practical, biblical answers. This is a conversation that we have wanted to have for quite some time and in this episode we're seriously stretching our theological legs. This is definitely one you'll want to share with others!

Transcript

welcome to the Churchosity podcast if you're looking for a place to have fun and edifying conversations about church culture then you have landed in the right spot

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what's up everybody my name is Heath Brady and I'm Andrea Brady and we are your Churchosity podcast Personnel coming at you back in the saddle again back in the saddle again Andy did you enjoy did you enjoy your week off for the Memorial Day Weekend yeah I did yes yeah we needed a break didn't we yeah yes we did I've been busy lately we've both been busy lately I know it's just been wild nuts but I'm getting ready for summer I'm so excited lots of fun things happening in the bray Bunch household I always have to talk about the weather why is that I don't know maybe because we were recently in California and enjoyed some really really good weather I know it was so nice so beautiful I know that many of our listeners are chomping at the bit for some updates on the Northern California sitch yeah let me just say this what did we not have the best time ever we really did down there mhm man them folks it was like above and beyond awesomeness some of the most hospitable and sweet people I've ever met oh man you know how I make up made up the word Fantastical yeah sort of sort of well uh these people are above and beyond Fantastical yeah it was we had a great time mhm I got to preach and they fed us a lot a lot yeah my weight loss plan is out the window it was some really good eating it really was Great Fellowship yeah uh just an allaround wonderful time good things are happening M and I'm going to leave it at that for now okay you'll have to wait and see your famous last words that's right I know that's right you hate it when I say that yeah I'm sure listeners hate it when I say it oh yeah no they hate it when you when you say I've got a secret or I've got something good cooking in the cooker and you'll have to wait and I'll tell you about it some other time like when I really really loaded up oh my gosh yeah well well Mr R what are we going to talk about today we are going to finally at long last have our conversation about the problem of evil oh yes the problem of evil okay but before we dive into our conversation we want to remind all of you to please give us a rating and leave us a review because your ratings and your reviews not only help popularize Churchosity but make us so much easier for other people to even find us we also want to encourage all of you to check out our website Churchosity.com is the home for all things Churchosity not just our episodes we got links to YouTube we got blogs we got merch and probably the most important thing on the entire website what we got a fancy little questioner that we would love everyone to take the amount of time to brew a curig and go to our website Churchosity.com and fill out this question here help bolster the Churchosity community and do your part by filling in that blank we would love it if Heath and Andrea would talk about blank well how are we supposed to talk about blank unless you fill in the blank right so seriously though folks uh we we want to hear from you we want to know what you like what you don't like what you like like to see more of what you'd like to see less of what you like to do new etc etc yes please so go to Churchosity.com give it a gander hang out for a while and enjoy enjoy that's Churchosity-dot-com.

All right Mrs Brady yes you ready for this I hope so I yeah this is kind of way over my head I don't think so I think it's just semantically you think it's over your head because of the terminology yeah but really I I think that uh I think that you could go Toe to Toe with anyone in the arena apologetics really oh yeah I absolutely believe that because you know your Bible you know the gospel mhm and you have great Theology and sound Doctrine thank you yes I this is this is a conversation that I have really been wanting to have for quite a long time okay um especially on our podcast I've I've talked about this thing called the problem of evil with people like you know off microphone obviously yeah but in the world of religion I'll just put it that way very vaguely all right when it comes to conversations about the judeo-christian faith you know the tenants of our faith like the foundations of our faith our Theology and our Doctrine much like the kingdom that Jesus brought what we believe is very upside down from what the rest of the world believes or thinks about their human existence where they came from why they're here what happens after you die Etc and ultimately at the end of the day the conversation comes down to what do you believe I mean it really does right and not only what do you believe but how do you substantiate your belief you know what I'm saying MH like you can say that you believe something like even scripture says that the demons believe in Jesus right yeah so you can believe in something but is there substance to that belief can you back it up so when when the subject of what's what's known as the quote problem of evil comes into a conversation Andy have you ever heard of the term the problem of evil I have heard of it yes but I think I get confused about that versus like why does sin exist M well well they're kind of in the same ballpark okay because the subject of the problem of evil has to deal with the existence of evil in the world okay and the problems that that quote unquote problems that the existence of evil creates for Christian theology okay so to speak it creates a problem well it creates a problem for people who aren't Christians uh okay so this problem of evil is more of a question that someone who isn't a Christian would probably be asking and as a theologian it's a topic that you would want to know about in order to defend your faith partially yes okay but also because I think that the biblical understanding of evil why it exists and what God has done and is going to do and is doing about it mhm are really really crucial mhm because this argument about the problem of evil It generally comes from those who are in the camp of religious pluralism in real people terms that would be like the Hub Theory you know that all roads lead to the same place okay relative truth your truth is your truth my truth is your truth Etc got it like the end of Lost the show which really didn't resolve itself which really didn't resolve itself much like the Hub Theory doesn't resolve itself well it's kind of like they all got to the door and the door had all these different symbols over it and we all walk through the same door and we're all going to end up in the same place sure okay right and you know Christianity sets itself apart from all the other world religions or non-religion because we as Christians believe in an absolute right and absolute wrong you know that we believe in moral biblical foundational truth that there is good and there is bad and the one who defines good and bad is not [Music]

us so that is that is the first issue with the conversation of the problem of evil essentially the problem of evil is this apparent contradiction that an all loving all powerful God and The Human Experience of suffering of evil in this world butt up against one another there are there are all sorts of criticisms that come from folks in this camp that the existence of evil is proof that God is not actually all powerful or omnipotent all knowing or omniscient and here's there's actually a fourth o we talk about the omnipotence omnipresence and omniscience of God yeah there's the Omni benevolence that God is always benevolent you know how we always say that all of life is Grace yeah that that's that Omni benevolent of God so there's criticism that the existence of evil is Pro proof that God is not out all powerful he is not all knowing and he is not a benevolent God he can't exist H and the reason why is because bad things happen to good people right and good things happen to bad people so either God is neither non-existent or he's less good or less powerful than the scriptures suggest that is essentially is the argument around the problem of evil okay so we're going to have a conversation about this because I think that and and again we only talk about things on our show that pertain directly to church culture mhm and I think that one of the things that is detrimental to church culture is not having a proper view of God that's true because if we don't have a proper view of God then we don't have a proper view of ourselves and we as Christians we as humans we have to decide for ourselves who is going to be in the driver's seat is it an an omnipotent omniscient omnipresent Omni benevolent God or is it humankind because one of those two rules right well I mean I don't know about the Omni benevolent God I mean I believe God is good and just but from our perspective what does benevolent look like I mean he may not measure up to what we think a benevolence SE should look like and therein lies the problem because we look at we look at the attributes of God from a finite Fallen perspective yeah we we we are guilty of the golden calf version of God like we think we know how to Fashion God and and and we we strive to put God in a box so that you know we can essentially control God like he's our genie in the bottle if you will o he's he's our rabbit's foot you know we we want we want what we want all of the time that's the that's our perspective of omni benevolence that God should always always be giving good things to good people and withholding good things from bad people that's a human definition of benevolence you know you think about it from from this perspective also many of our churches have something called a benevolence fund it's it's a it's a a a source of monies that our churches set aside for folks within the church body that maybe they've someone lost a job or a loved one passed away and so there's it's it's the taking care of it's the taking care of or meeting someone's need whether they ask for help or not right so we we on the human level think of God's benevolencia the same way and yet what we don't understand is that Omni benevolencia most likely on on God's Eternal perspective is that he lets us take our next breath yeah that he allowed us to exist in the first place and that's what I mean when I say that all of life is Grace I say it all the time all of life is Grace and and Grace is is universal everyone that is alive and breathing right now whether they're healthy or sick everyone who is alive and breathing right now is taking their next breath because of God's grace and that rubs people the wrong way because it's a question of sovereignty okay is God Sovereign or is he not MH Andy have you ever heard anybody say I could never believe in a God who yeah all the time fill in the blank yeah right who could send people to Hell who could you know uh allow people to suffer exactly allow bad things to happen to good people and good things to happen to bad people well to each person who says that H I say to them you're absolutely right right you you can't believe in a God that does those things because God doesn't do those things for one and for two you can't believe because without faith you don't believe okay Ephesians 2:8-9 is by Grace you have been saved through faith and it is a gift from God not of ourselves the very faith alone to believe is a gift from God there are examples in scripture where people knew who Jesus was and believed that he could do amazing things but their faith lacked and he would say to them those people would say to Christ Lord help my unbelief right so when it comes to the problem of evil to break it down in its simplest form we're talking about an all powerful and an all- knowing god okay the problem of evil suggests that if evil exists and God is all powerful and God is all knowing that is a contradiction why because if God knows everything but evil still exists then he can't be powerful enough to get rid of it oh okay or if God is all powerful powerful enough to destroy evil but evil still exists that he doesn't know where all of the evil is to deal with it that in a nutshell is the argument of the problem of evil yeah but that's looking at it from our timeline as a human of course you're absolutely right and then at I mean we have the promise that at the end of all things that evil will be done away with that's right and Christians know the end of the story right right but but you know how we always talk about we call it the Eternal perspective yeah the Eternal perspective and and we hammer away at that constantly on our podcast because the Christian life is really really hard to live from the human perspective yeah it is but to strive to have the Eternal perspective to understand the things of God which are only discerned spiritually 1 Corinthians chapter 1 to be on that Eternal perspective to think about things through the lens of Christ mm kind of solves the problem of evil because there really isn't a problem of evil right because it's gonna be solved exactly all right thanks for listening end of our episode but why does it exist in the first place sure of course right we'll come back around to that right all right well scripture definitely acknowledges the problem of evil many of the books of the Bible openly Express what we would now term the problem of evil in some cases these impressions are all but a direct accusation against God in response to the suffering that the writers had seen or experienced think about the entire Book of Job yeah oh man yeah uh or habac 1 veres 2-4 how long Lord must I call for help but you do not listen or cry out to you violence but you do not save yeah why do you make me look at in Justice why do you tolerate wrongdoing destruction and violence are before me there is strife and conflict abounds therefore the law is paralyzed and Justice never prevails the wicked hem in the righteous so that Justice is perverted think about the Psalms we talk about the Psalms all the time Psalm 10:1 why Lord do you stand far off why do you hide yourself in times of trouble or how how about this one this one sounds familiar Psalm 22: 1 and 2 my God my God why have you forsaken me great why are you so far from saving me so far from My Cries of Anguish my God I cry out by day but you do not answer by night but I find No Rest Psalm 83: 1 and 2 oh God do not remain silent do not turn a deaf ear do not stand aloof oh God see how your enemies growl how your foes rear their heads and then Jesus even uh told his disciples that bad things were going to happen to them in John 16: 2-4 they will put you out of the synagogue in fact the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God oh wow they will do such things because they have not known the father or me I have told you this so that when their time comes you will remember that I warned you about them wow and then the Apostle Paul Romans 8:36 as it is written for your sake we Face death all day long we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered H scripture all over the place addresses this quote unquote problem of evil because on our side of The Human Experience on our level this stuff doesn't make sense right right it just it doesn't make sense that that even the followers of Jesus Christ would would be made to suffer and people who are Scoundrels just get to have at it and all of the other things the bad things that happen people who get sick you know death in in and of itself um why did barabus get set free so that Jesus could be arrested MH well not only does Scripture acknowledge the problem of evil but script R also frames the problem of evil the Bible makes it clear that evil is something God neither intended nor created but rather moral evil is a necessary possibility if we are truly free then we are free to choose something other than God's will we can choose moral evil scripture points out that there are consequences for defying the will of God personal communal physical and spiritual H now from the very beginning it was always God's intention for things to be good constantly in the Book of Genesis during creation God looked at all that he had made and saw that it was very good right yeah uh after God had created Adam and Eve the Lord commanded them uh you are free to eat from any tree in the garden but you must not eat from the Tree of knowledge of good and evil for when you eat from it you will certainly die mhm okay so there's the choice right right mhm but then God says to Adam because you ate from the fruit of the tree about which I commanded you you must not eat from it cursed is the ground because of you therein lies the consequence of the choice of sin yeah cursed disobedience cursed is the ground because of you through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life it will produce thorns and thistles for you literally and metaphorically by the way that's crazy I never I I keep forgetting about that that curse thorns and thistles don't you think it's interesting how the Thorns that were a curse at the fall of Man for the crown that Jesus wore on uhhuh cross you know how we talk all the time about how Jesus Christ is on virtually every page of the Bible yeah exactly right there in Genesis chter 3 you just found another example an illusion to Christ yeah right yeah the very thing that was a symbol of the curse was the thing that Christ wore for the penalty of the curse in mockery as a crown

yeah isn't that crazy yeah he he's the last Adam M yes that's so cool sorry that's okay you're you're squirrel you're my Theologian man okay preaching Jesus reminds us in the Beatitudes in Matthew Chapter 5 blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness for they will be filled Etc yeah here's something interesting also in John chapter 9: 1 through3 speaking about Jesus as he went along he saw a man blind from birth his disciples asked him Rabbi who sinned this man or his parents that he was born blind right I remember this so I'm going to stop there for a second

who sinned I've been in circles that that think this way that that if that if a child born with some sort of inadequacy it's a direct consequence of the mother or the father or both having sin in their life right right very legalistic very very abilistic it's painful right okay mhm listen to Jesus's response to that question yes neither this man nor his parents sinned said Jesus but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him in other words God allowed it why for his glory yeah and that is so antithetical to the human perspective Andy what is it that you like to say all the time about what God does with hearts

he holds the hearts of Kings in his hand doesn't he yes so he hardens Hearts like Pharaoh's heart and he softens Hearts mhm um he opens doors and closes doors that's right and he does that because he is God yeah so when we see things that we would consider to be quote unquote evil MH it isn't that God doesn't know about it and it isn't that God isn't powerful enough to eradicate it true or obliterate it it's because in that thing that we would consider bad or wrong or evil that is sustaining it is for His glory that it is happening and we on this side of Eternity just cannot wrap our heads around that and I understand that cuz trust me there have been many times in my life where like King David I have said Lord why do you allow the wicked to prosper why will you not stand up for me those kind of conversations you know mhm Romans 3:23 for all have sinned all and I looked that up in the Greek it means all it means all all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God see we cannot live up to God's glorious standard and because we cannot live up to God's glorious standard what gives us the right to say that God is not good enough because he allows things to happen that we don't think he should allow to happen and he disallows things that we think should be allowed to happen who who's in the driver's seat in that from that mindset well we are we are not God no that statement in and of itself is what it means when Paul writes in Romans 3:23 that all fall short of the glory of God it's kind of like if you're playing darts you get three darts for your turn right yeah and for all intents and purposes the goal is to hit the bullseye well I if I throw my first Dart and it doesn't even hit the target at all like it bounces off the wall mhm uh did I get a bullseye nope if it lands in the 20 triple 20 spot that's a lot of points but did I get a bullseye no if it lands on the ring just outside of the bullseye it's really really close is it a bullseye no and see that is The Human Experience no matter how hard we try even the good things quote unquote good things that we think we are doing when we do them in our own strength when we do them in our own understanding everything falls short of God's glorious perfect standard in Andy Romans 5:12 you alluded to this a few minutes ago therefore just as Sin entered the world through one man mhm that's Adam right and death through sin and in this way death came to all people because all sinned we inherit we are born into the Fallen sinful nature the Fallen sinful State God didn't do it we did it and we constantly do it it's that simple so if if you look at scripture Al together it it also shows us that physical evils like sickness famine War Death Etc they're all the results of moral evil and moral evil is something human beings are all responsible for on a personal and a communal level we suffer because of our own sins at times and other times we suffer because of the sins of others it's true in some situations we suffer from simple cause and effect and we sometimes suffer for a special purpose in order to bring hope or help or a warning to others but the Bible frames the problem of evil by keeping it in the proper context evil is meaningless without something to compare it to now here's where it gets dicey yeah so we compare the original creation of God which he called very good to the aftermath of man choosing to do things his way which is not good right right now I mentioned early in the episode that the bulk of this conversation the the the the bulk of this argument over the quote problem of evil is in the camp of the religious pluralists the the relative truths if you will and most of those folks don't understand the Paradox that they put themselves in the contradiction that they put themselves in when they say this what's that well if truth is relative then who's to say what evil actually

is okay because at the end of the to day in order for everyone who to land on the same page about the quote existence of evil or problem of evil mhm everyone has to agree what evil looks like yeah I guess that's true and it can't be relatively defined you know it kind of reminds me of the newer Disney movies where it shows like the Genesis of the um villains like Maleficent for example okay and so like she's an evil villain in the Disney lore or whatever but if you wa if you watch it from a different perspective you understand the reasons why she did all the bad things that she did so on one side you know before you watch the movie you think she's horrible and evil for all the things that she did and then on the other side having watched it you're like huh well that kind of makes sense I get why she did that so it's doesn't seem as evil anymore sure or it could be justified right I mean I know that sounds weird but sometimes it's all about our perspective right but at the end of the day Maleficent is the one actually doing evil yes and we as the viewer uhhuh have to make the choice whether or not to root for her exactly the anti-hero correct yes it's me hi I'm the problem it's me

exactly but scripture opposes the problem of evil scripture shows that God did not create evil and does not promote it rather it describes God's actions in combating it God does limit the impact of evil he warns us of the dangers of evil he acts to stop the spread of evil he gives us an Escape From Evil and he will eventually defeat evil forever right and the demonstration of this I've I've mentioned this many times on the podcast but from the very beginning and and this is really the point that I want to drive home of why I don't believe evil is a problem okay okay Genesis 3 verse 21 the Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them from the very beginning from the very beginning of sin nature God demonstrates that by the shedding of innocent blood those sins are covered our sins are covered right it's crazy H that's as far back as the beginning so from the beginning the way that God deals with the curse of evil on our lives is to cover it by the shedding of innocent blood and thus making us positionally right with him but let's dig a Little Deeper okay if we jump back to the New Testament in Matthew 10: 28 Jesus says something really peculiar do not be afraid of Those Who Kill the body right but cannot kill the soul rather be afraid of the one who can destroy both body and soul in hell that's a tough verse to choke down yeah but it explains the difference that what happens in this physical experience of ours is nothing to fear what we should be afraid of on the other hand is the status of our soul before a holy God yeah there is a difference and I think just as a side note I think that one of the primary reasons why this argument about the problem of evil even exists to begin with mhm is that I think that humankind has lost sight of the fear of God yeah they're not afraid well we know that already well sure yeah what is it that Solomon wrote in Proverbs that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom MH and yet all of these people who think that they're so wise and want to argue about the existence of of evil they don't fear God because the fear of the Lord the reverent fear the reality that I will stand before almighty God one day to give an account for my life does not exist and that is the beginning of wisdom here's wisdom get more wisdom that's another verse in the Proverbs well and if anyone thinks that we're wise in our own eyes we're actually foolish I mean if we think that we can stand be before a holy God and tell them how awesome we are and all the good things we did in our life we're sadly mistaken mhm because it's only because of the shedding of his innocent blood Jesus amen that we're covered that's right you know so the idea of standing be before a holy God scares me and it should it should bring fear kind of in your Spirit but knowing that you're sealed by the Holy Spirit you have freedom in Christ that's right and that fear is not that we're afraid of God like he's some mean Cosmic

daddy that's that's going to be mad at us saying Andrea K get in here that's right he

Thomas no the fear the fear is is being bare before a holy God who knows all who knows all it's it's kind of like when you know that you've done something to strain a relationship with another person M and it's bad like like something really bad happened okay and you've talked it out apology forgiveness even but the next like one to two to three to however many times you're around that person it's kind of awkward okay kind of uncomfortable imagine that on a cosmic scale regarding your entire life and everything that you've done or haven't done awkward before a holy God right that's what that reverent fear looks like it isn't being scared of God although I think some people in this world should be scared of God yeah and his judgments but if you are in Christ your sins are covered and you're not scared of God you're scared of standing before him bear does that make sense yeah well scripture resolves the problem of evil the existence of evil is often presented as an enormous problem for those who believe in God mostly because of various false dichotomies God must it is assumed disallow all evil or he is evil himself let me say that again God must disallow all evil or he is evil himself H boy if that isn't a golden calf idea of God I don't know what is yeah because if evil exists then God must be evil because he's allowing it that's essentially what that says when someone says I could never believe in a God who fill in the blank yeah that's it's an all or nothing that's what that statement essentially means MH God must God must immediately punish all evildoers and never trouble those who are innocent or he is assumed not to be on nipotent you better watch out if you're saying that cuz yeah he's going to do away with you too then careful what you wish

for right but in reality though in all seriousness these assumptions miss the actual means by which scripture resolves the problem of evil we've talked about how the Bible acknowledges evil how the Bible correctly frames it and how God opposes it but most importantly though scripture explains how the existence of the Christian God defeats the problem of evil a simple example of this is in Mark 10:45 Jesus says for even the son of man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many or how about the institution of Holy Communion in Luke 2 too he took bread gave thanks and broke it and gave it to them saying this is my body given for you do this in remembrance of me in the same way after the supper he took the cup saying this cup is the New Covenant in my blood which is poured out for you wow and then the last words that Jesus spoke from the cross John 19:30 Jesus said it is finished with that he bowed his head and gave up his spirit and I could go on on and on and on and on and on but the last verse that I want to read kind of drives home the point that I want to close with okay it's in Colossians 1: 21 and 22 once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil Behavior I could just end the episode right there you want to know what evil looks like there it is once you were alienated from God completely separated is what that word means in the Greek you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil Behavior but now two of the best words in all of scripture but now but now he has reconciled you you're no longer enemies you're no longer alienated you have been reconciled to God how by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight without blemish and free from

accusation probably one of the most powerful verses in all of scripture yeah in that one verse contains all good Theology and proper Doctrine I'm just saying yeah so rather than creating us as aoral robots or dooming mankind for our sin or condoning our sin by leaving it unresolved God chose the one and only way to settle the problem he created us with the freedom to choose our actions and then extended forgiveness to us forgiveness is the Christian answer to the problem of evil

so if you ask me Heath yes if God is all knowing right and God is all powerful mhm and God is everywhere all of the time and all of life is filled with God's grace why in the world does evil still exist my answer in order to put Christ's atonement on display amen without the existence of evil mhm the atonement the shedding of innocent blood to cover our sins the penalty that we owe God for our evil Deeds would not be covered would not be paid for why does evil exist ladies and gentlemen so that Christ's atonement can be put on display and that's all we have to say about that!

 Thank you for listening to the Churchosity podcast don't forget to give us a rating and leave us a review on our next episode we are going to begin a conversation about the armor of God over to you Andy be sure to check out our website Churchosity.com there you can follow us on all the socials become a Churchosity patreon listen to our podcast and be sure to drop us a message give us your feedback fill out our questionnaire cuz we would really love to hear from you do it and don't forget to spread the word about the Churchosity podcast by just simply telling a friend to tell a friend what we're doing here yeah let them be a part of the conversation too but always remember that the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and from a good conscience and a sincere Faith so we thank you all once again for listening and we look forward to catching you all on the next episode of Churchosity podcast peace [Music]

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