"Grief: Depression & Acceptance"

Grief: Episode 2 of 2. We conclude our conversation about Grief by looking at the examples of Jesus and David. Listen as we validate the reality of depression, but also promote what's even more important: healing and comfort.

We're thinking three dimensionally here, but strongly encouraging our Christian community to rally around those who are grieving. Comfort from brothers and sisters in Christ helps propel us from Grief to Health.

Transcript

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what's up everybody Welcome to the Churchosity podcast if you're looking for a place to have fun and edifying conversations about church culture then you have landed in the right spot my name is Heath Brady and I'm Andrea Brady and we are your Churchosity podcast Personnel coming at you coming at you one more time one more time you know we've been on a really good role here we have yeah since the new year I know I kind of feel like we have a lot more accountability to make sure that we put out content too yeah a lot more listeners and Patreons and all the things mhm and our new website and our new website and we have bonus content we got a lot going on yeah we do we are busy busy busy it's been fun yes it has it's almost been like a full-time job almost almost yeah it's quite the hobby yes it is so Andy my love yeah how are you you doing today I'm excited to talk about everyone's favorite

subject oh good grief s well we're wrapping up our grief episode yes you know I'm just a little light-hearted sometimes yeah well you know like Bender said on The Breakfast Club tension breaker had to be done yeah that's me I'm the tension breaker you are the fun meister well as you said said we are going to be finishing up our conversation about grief on this episode but before we dive into that conversation we want to remind all of you to give us a rating and leave us a review because your ratings and reviews not only Help popularize Churchosity podcast but also make us a heck of a lot easier for other people to find us and we also want to encourage all of you to check out our website Church o.com is the home for all things Churchosity give it a gander hang out for a while and enjoy all right all right so are we ready to have a serious conversation yeah yeah so Andy on our last episode we started this conversation about grief M and you listed off some of the experts opinions great as to the what are called the five stages of grief exactly would you kindly remind our lovely listeners what those five stages were oh yeah well and I also made a disclaimer that we're not professionals I mean we're professional podcasters we are not licensed practitioners for anything involved in the medical industry or field right we are not psychologists MH that is our disclaimer yes and also now navigating through the five stages of grief sometimes it's not a linear process you can flip back and forth through some of the stages but for the most part these seem to be Universal things that most people experience while dealing with and healing from grief the first one would be denial the second one would be anger the third one is bargaining number four is depression and number five is is acceptance mhm yeah I'd say that those five are pretty common yeah on our last episode we unpacked the first three mhm and what did we what were some of the highlights about what we said about denial denial you were the denial-er yeah I was the Denial-er that I flip back and forth between being in denial and bargaining right because I I think for me they go hand in hand like the denial stage is like you can't believe that this is happening or this isn't really happening or I don't have time for this right now yeah like it's a defense mechanism yeah and for me you know when I'm in denial I start bargaining with God and asking him to um change things and reverse things or making trying to make deals with him like if you if you fix this for me then I'll do this or that right yeah and then there was the anger stage which is pretty self-explanatory MH I think I jokingly mentioned that we could do a whole episode on anger all by itself and we expressly stated that while on the one hand there is nothing wrong with experiencing anger in your grief scripture is very clear that we are to be angry and yet not sin right it's what we do with the anger that either helps or hurts our grieving process and ultimately our relationship with the Lord and others mhm and and that was a really great conversation and on this episode we are going to cover the last two which are depression and

acceptance and I want to preface our conversation by saying that you know we we may have a little or a lot to say about depression and anxiety but our desire is not to encourage this culture of victimhood just like with church hurt and spiritual abuse when we talked about how our goal in talking through those conversations was for people to be able to see what it is that they're going through and that it's okay that they're going through it but that ultimately that they would find healing and restoration from it right so all of that to say I I want to publicly acknowledge the reality of depression and anxiety MH in our world in our culture in our churches in our families in our relationships depression is a real thing and the reason why I want to so heavily emphasize that is because I know as a gen xer I've been around the block a few times and there was a period of time in church culture specifically like in the mid to late '90s early 2000s MH where if anybody the majority of the times that somebody would bring up depression in their life like they were experiencing depression or they were feeling depressed about something that it was labeled as that's all in your head it's a spiritual thing uh maybe the maybe the reason why you're feeling what you're feeling isn't actually depression it's remorse over some unconfessed sin in your life like there was this whole aspect of attributing depression to victim blaming like the person who's experiencing the depression is actually the one that's at fault right for something and it's between them and God and that was your experience that was my experience in in church culture it was it was very predominant and you know that's that's a period of my life where I'm in my 20s and going into my early 30s that was very influential on my personal Walk With Jesus and my experience in the ministry mhm you know there's this old adage that guilt by association that you you become like the people that you associate with yeah and so if you're in a Ministry position especially in a church that is condemning even the mere concept of depression then you end up kind of adopting that ideology well that was also my experience oh dear and so as a as a Ministry leader as a pastor I had to really really wrestle with that for a long time because on the one hand there are plenty of verses in the Bible that tell us not to be anxious about anything that that we're to trust Jesus with everything that is negative or negatively impacting our lives and that he will give us peace that transcends understanding but as we discussed on our last episode there are also a myriad of scriptures that speak to the reality of depression mhm that there are things in this life that make us depressed mhm it is what it is yeah and so I'm here to say that I am no longer that guy and haven't been that guy for a long time and that I personally just want to say that depression and anxiety are real and they're a part of life's journey mhm because not everything goes our way and when things don't go our way there's a processing of that mhm I was having coffee with a close friend recently talking about this whole concept of grief and depression and anxiety and she said something that was really mind-blowing like it it kind of made this whole conversation about grief and depression and angst I's relationship to grief just make total complete sense to me she said that depression is the condition that a person is in and grief or what someone is grieving are the symptoms of it so just like someone wakes up in the morning and they got a scratchy throat and their nose is stuffed and they're running a fever those are all symptoms of a condition known as the flu mhm so if if you are experiencing grief or grieving things that break you down emotionally like death of a relative uh separation of a relationship loss of a Ministry whatever it might be those are symptoms that of grief that contribute to your depression mhm and all of that is normal and all of that is okay but what we want to talk about is how depression being a part of the grieving process is something that not only is normal and not only something that we experience but how God can turn that around M and be glorified through it because that's part of the healing process we want to live lives that are pleasing to God and when we're when we're in that dark cloud experiencing depression through our grief that's a real experience and I dare say that God doesn't want us to stay in that no that he wants us to heal and lean on him doesn't mean that we're bad for being depressed right I mean Ecclesiastes says there's a time for everything yes that is that is very very true in Ecclesiastes chapter 3 starting verse one for everything there is a season and a time for every matter under Heaven a time to be born and a time to die a time to plant and a time to pluck up what is planted A Time to Kill and a time to heal a time to break down and a time to build up a time to weep and a time to laugh a time to mourn and a time to Dance Etc and I'm glad that you mentioned that verse Andy because notice those are like like comparisons of two polar opposite things yeah so yeah there's a time to weep and there's a time to break down and there's a time to mourn but there's also a time to laugh yes and a time to build up and a time to dance mhm so please don't hear either one of us say that we expect especially Christians to stay in their depression State because there is a time for dancing there is a time for rejoicing there is a time for building things up again we I just want to go the extra mile and acknowledge that depression is very very real anxiety is very very real and that you should not ever feel condemned for experiencing it right that's all I'm trying to say that's good what are your thoughts on the whole concept of depression Andy oh I just I know for myself when I've been depressed I lean heavily on the Psalms because I identify so much with David mhm and you know how he struggled with being in the depths of Sheol right and um he was brokenhearted and you know so like Psalm 34 is one of my favorites Psalm 34:18 where it says that the Lord is near to the Brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit I know that sometimes when you're going through depression and you're wondering why God is allowing these kinds of things to happen I know that I belong to him and I know ultimately everything that happens to me in life should Draw Me Closer to the Lord right it doesn't necessarily make me happy but on the on the um flips side coming out of depression and then looking back I'd like to say that I've grown through the process and that I'm closer to the Lord because of it amen so when I'm in the depths of Sheol and I'm praying to God I'm remembering that and thanking him despite my not understanding why and at least thanking him that I belong to him mhm you know holding on to the promises of scripture the things that we can cling to the things that the truths that we know are some of the things that I hold on to when I'm dealing with the unknown sure like when Jesus is praying his high Priestly prayer and he thanks the father for the ones that he has given to him and that nothing can snatch them out of his hand MH or or like in Romans 8:28 that we know that all things that God causes all things to work together for good for those who love God and are called according to his purpose right that includes our state of depression yeah that he will he causes that to work together for our good if we're called by him according to his purpose and sometimes it's hard to hear that in the moment sure yeah speaking of prayers and David and the Psalms yeah I've kind of had this pocket verse or verses I should say that I've been recalling lately Psalm 27: 4 and 5 one thing have I asked of the Lord that I will seek after that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all of the days of my life to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord and to inquire in his Temple for he will hide me in his shelter in the day of trouble he will conceal me under the cover of his tent he will lift me high upon a rock and I just when you know when I when I think of that those verses I just picture the Lord coming alongside me in in my moments of Despair and downheartedness and like putting his arm around me and covering me up and Sheltering me so that nothing else can hurt me right but he doesn't take he doesn't necessarily remove the downhearted experience he Comforts conceals and shelters through it mm so that he can lift us up and and I love that I I just that's that's a beautiful picture that those verses give me about the Lord's compassion and grace and mercy and loving kindness towards us when we're going through what we're going through you know what I mean yeah I know yeah that's beautiful I mentioned on our last episode that there are two specific there there's a lot of examples in scripture that talk about grief but there are two specific ones that come to mind when I think about Jesus himself experiencing grief and the first one I mentioned on our last episode in John 11 with the death and resurrection of Lazarus mhm but the second one I saved for this one because it's even more intense and very eye opening for us and that's when Jesus Is In The Garden of Gethsemane the night that he's arrested oh yes mhm so check this out Matthew chap 26 starting in verse 36 then Jesus came with them that's the disciples to a place called Gethsemane and said to his disciples sit here while I go over there and pray and he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee and began to be grieved and distressed excuse me Jesus the savior of humankind was grieved and distressed mhm oh but let's keep going verse 38 then he said to them this is Peter James and John my soul is deeply grieved to the point of death remain here and keep watch with me and he went a little Beyond them and fell on his face and prayed but you talk about the stages of grief one of them being

bargaining yes exactly here's Jesus praying to his heavenly father my father if it is possible let this cup pass from me wow but then stage five acceptance yet not as I will but as you will and he came to the to the disciples and found them sleeping and said to Peter so you men could not keep watch with me for 1 hour keep watching and praying that you may not enter into temptation the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak that phrase speaks to so many things in the Christian experience in the context of depression the spirit is willing to not be depressed but the flesh this this fleshly Human Experience of ours is so weak m verse 42 he went away again a second time and prayed saying my father if this cannot pass away unless I drink it your will be done mhm now what's interesting is that there is a medical condition that Jesus was literally experiencing while he was deeply grieved to the point of death while he was praying to his heavenly father he was so distressed that he was literally sweating drops of blood mhmh it's a real medical condition right that's found in Luke 2244 correct thank you you're welcome it makes it abundantly clear that Jesus as the scripture says experienced everything that we experience right like his soul was deeply grieved to the point of death and he was bargaining with the heavenly father to take the burden away in our vernacular daddy Papa if there's any other way that we can do what it is that we've set out to do I am all ears I'm listening but then the acceptance of what the Lord's will is for him he says but not my will be done but yours right so it it's encouraging to me and I hope that it's encouraging to all of you who are listening knowing that my savior my Lord experienced literally the things that we experience on this side of Eternity deep grief even to the point of death wow it's intense when you think about it and I think that a lot of times we as Christians really stumble in the area of understanding or let alone accepting that Christ while he was 100% God was also 100% human and and we struggle with accepting and and understanding Christ's Humanity so many times but this man this son of man named Jesus Christ had physical experiences like you and I experience emotional experiences and here in Matthew 26 it is very descriptive and in Luke 22 it is very descriptive on everything that Jesus was experiencing in this particular

moment even though it was a fulfillment of his father's plan for the Redemption of humanity even though as it says in Hebrews 12 that Jesus endured the cross and despised the shame for the joy that was set before him he can considered it joy to lay down his life here in this moment he was grieving about it so be encouraged by that ladies and gentlemen that your lord and savior experience grief and depression and distress David the man after God's Own Heart experience grief and depression and distress like it's a real thing one of the things that we like to remind everyone of is to try and have compassion for yourself and to give yourself Grace during this time mhm I mean maybe your depression is lasting longer than you think it should true maybe you're angry with God but like we say you know lean heavily on the scriptures and be honest with the Lord in prayer you should also remember to seek comfort and friendship and help with other Christians lean on your Christian Community because having support from someone else to come alongside you and walk with you in your struggles that's invaluable yes I'm glad that you mentioned uh being in the midst of the Christian Community mhm because let's flip the script for a second and talk about those of us in the Christian Community that see or know of a brother or sister in Christ who is experiencing grief specifically depression right well Romans 12:15 the Apostle Paul is pretty clear Rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep bear one another's burdens in other words mhm you know Iron sharpening iron isn't just for the sole purpose of helping to make someone more like Jesus in their Theology and Doctrine and church attendance and tithing and

tithing no no no uh discipleship also very much involves bearing burdens with your brother or sister because in all honesty who else do we have to lean on that's better equipped or better acquainted with our human experience than other Christians in our community mhm so brother or sister if someone Close to You someone that you know is going through this you almost have a responsibility to to reach out to that person to come alongside that person even if it's just to make yourself available and say hey I know you're going through it I'm here and then actually follow through with that right cuz then you know uh and this might be part of the denial stage though when when when someone reaches out to us and says hey I'm here to help what do we in our culture have a tendency to deal with that withdraw withdraw say no I'm good yeah we're fine I'm good no thanks yeah that's part of that denial right that responsibility of coming out of the denial stage M and the responsibility of Us coming alongside those in our community who are going through it they go hand in hand right and just think about how God is glorified in that because that is a serious aspect of discipleship That You Weep with those who weep that you bear one another's

burdens so it's it's powerful stuff it is and it's I know that in certain circles in church culture the mere words depression or anxiety are taboo true but they shouldn't be yeah because if Jesus experienced them if King David experienced them it's biblical mhm it's part of the Christian Human Experience that speaks very well into stage five of grief which is acceptance M I don't know if it's the last stage it kind of feels like it's the last stage but maybe it's the first stage maybe maybe you're someone who is so accustomed to grief that you just accept it right out of the gate that I'm grieving you know but Andy yes what are what are your like initial thoughts about the stage of Acceptance in our grieving process well it's kind of when people come to terms with the reality of their loss and accept the new normal um like a willingness to move forward and that your grief has now become a part of your life story ooh I like that mhm yeah and you can look back and see how you've navigated your grief and that hopefully you are closer to the Lord and you can now maybe go forth and help someone else in the future who might be going through something similar to what you experienced right I think it's important to at this stage make sure you thank the Lord for his faithfulness mhm hopefully you'll be able to experience a deeper understanding of his love for you I think that something that can help us achieve the acceptance stage is remembering that not only is grief to be expected not only is grief part of The Human Experience not only are we encouraged to grieve but that God knows our griefs mhm and he sees our griefs and he doesn't condemn you for grief either he doesn't turn us away when we're grieving I think of Psalm 22:4 that says for he has not despised or abhor the Affliction of The Afflicted and he has not hidden his face from him but has heard when he cried to him oh I think that's just a beautiful promise like even if I have to sit and and go through these waves of depression these waves of grief these stages of grief the Lord is not despised with me the Lord does not despise my Affliction the Lord is not hiding his face from me the Lord hears me when I cry and I love that me too you know probably one of the greatest things about God's character that I certainly appreciate is how he never leaves us or forsakes US amen especially when we're in the midst of grief mhm you know what I'm saying I know also think of 2 Corinthians 1: 3-5 blessed be the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ the father of mercies and God of All Comfort who comforts Us in all our Affliction so that we may be able to comfort those who are in Affliction with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God for as we share abundantly in Christ's sufferings so through Christ we share abundantly in Comfort too and those verses are just an incredible they give me such an incredible sense of validation not only for the grieving process but that Jesus grieved and that because Jesus grieved and gave us and gives us comfort and because we grieve and God gives us Comfort we can comfort those who are grieving also and I think that with the combination of knowing that the Lord never leaves us or forsakes US and also knowing that our Christian Community will surround us and comfort us and go through it with us that those two things especially would greatly contribute to the stage of acceptance knowing that God still got us and knowing that our community is surrounding us I would think makes it easier for accepting the grief I would think so too Andy I think to summarize this conversation about grief for any one of us that are experiencing grief right now with whichever stage you're in denial anger bargaining depression or

acceptance be confident that God has got you and he's not rejecting you be confident that you have a community of Christians even if it's just one person that's true you have other Christian brothers or sisters around you so you are not not alone but thirdly and I would argue most importantly just remember how good God is when we are grieving MH how he comes alongside us remember the words of Psalm 48:14 that this is God our God forever and ever he will guide us forever and and that's all we have to say about that thank you for listening to the Churchosity podcast don't forget to give us a rating and leave us a review on our next episode we'll be having a monumentous occasion yes we'll be marking podcast recording history over to you Andy be sure to check out our website that's churchosity.com there you can find all things Churchosity follow us on the socials become a Churchosity Patreon drop us a message and give us your feedback because we would really love to hear from you and don't forget to spread the word about Churchosity podcast by just simply telling a friend to tell a friend what we're doing here yeah let them be a part of the conversation too but always remember that the goal of our instruction Is Love from a pure heart and from a good conscience and a sincere Faith so we thank each and every one of you again for listening and we hope to catch all of you on the next episode of Churchosity podcast [Music]

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